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Talk:List of enemies
The list Hi Mudesi. I choose to answer to your call here, so that the other users (ha! get it? I just said "other users"! Ha-ha-ha-hah!) can join this discussion. I think it is relevant enough. We should agree on "official names"; it's okay that we use synonyms whenever we want and even create redirect pages for others, but the level tables, to say the least, should include always the same name for each enemy. In official names, clarity should prevail over humor. (Example: i find "wah-ha-hah" to be a perfect name for an enemy, but since few people will look up its article by writing its sound in the search box (and if they did, they probably would spell it differently), it's no good. Oooh. Pity. You'll still be wah-ha-hah's to me, babies.) Truncated and I already debated this long ago, but did not reach any agreement, I think. The names we did agree on appear in the Gallery section in his article, Enemy. The ones we dissent on are mostly in the Rotten Head family. * The big rotten head that appears in the air saying die, then drops, stays for a second and vanishes, Truncated calls "Big Head" and I call "Emo Skull". * The little rotten head that goes "wah-ha-hah" and bounces around, Truncated calls "Mini-head" and I call "Wah-ha-hah". * The medium-sized rotten head with a spike in its bottom that gets nailed in the ground when you stomp on it, grunts as it struggles to release himself and then goes "die", Truncated calls... (Truncated, please tell me how you use to call this one) and I call "Pogo Skull". * The medium-small sized rotten head with drills on its sides that destroys rock blocks, we both call "Drill". Truncated's names are logical and all refer to the same family (except for Drill). I like that. On the other hand, the "head" motive is widely used in the game (Heady Metal is a big head spitting heads); also, Skulls are another big motive (see Juggernaut). We should avoid confusion. My suggestion: Big Rotten, Small Rotten, Stake Rotten, Drill Rotten. Please offer alternatives. As for the Spinning Dancers/Dancing Yokels... well, we agree they dance; but Mudesi, you assumed they're wrestlers... Please decide this one soon, 'cause i'm willing to write this article and speculate on what were those Sega developers smoking to come up with such stupid foe. Reply Hey, Truncated here. I like that our enemy names are very descriptive and easy to find, since Kid Chameleon has no official names of enemies. For example, no one would argue that the Lion, Crab or UFO aren't really depicting a lion, a crab and an UFO. Then there are those enemies that don't seem to depict anything in particular... which are the ones we have problems with here. I can accept the Big XX, Small XX, Stake XX and Drill XX on the spot. The problem is what XX should be... * Rock - as noted, will be confused with rock block * Skull - they are not really skulls, and the name is better as a description of what Juggernaut shoots * Head - this was my suggestion, but as noted above there are plenty of other heads, like the bosses. Big head could just as easily be Plethora * Rotten - sorry, I don't see the likeness. If they are made of stone, how can they be rotten? * ... though I don't really have a better idea. Stoneface? Mr Big, Small, Spike and Drill? Truncated 18:42, 12 September 2008 (UTC) I vote for skull Ok guys, let's face it. These things are all skulls. Just look at them. They're eyesocketless head shaped things with teeth. I tend to agree that a descriptive name is better than a funny one. I say keep things simple. One falls, one jumps around, and the other one is a smaller version of the one that jumps around. Falling skull Jumping skull Mini skull The Driller I think should be called "driller", because, well, that's what it does! As for the wrestler guys, I have no idea. How about "Bodybuilders"? Mudesi 23:10, 14 September 2008 (UTC) Objection But the one you call mini-skull is ALSO a jumping skull by definition. Oh, and a falling skull too, since they do fall from the ceiling. I can only know which is which by process of elimination, but inside the wiki people won't have all three names together to make it out. I'd go for Big and Mini. Maybe we should add "Big dropping skull" and "Little bouncing skull"? Or are those too long? Otherwise, i think big and mini are fine. So is driller. As for the one left, I think people will recognize it by the pointy thing in his ass, rather than its unremarkable jumping abilities. At least, that's what makes them get nailed in the ground, which is their main characteristic. Problem is how to call that pointy thing. A. Itsasoguren 07:36, 15 September 2008 (UTC) How about this Mini skull Skull Ghost skull If you look at the names of the others, it's as simple as that. A dragon is a dragon, a crab is a crab, a skull is a skull. The smaller version of the skull gets "mini" and the one that appears out of nowhere gets "ghost". I don't think it's confusing at all this way, since there's only one mini and only one ghost. I think a name more than two words long is a little too awkward. What about the bodybuilders? Any suggestions? Mudesi 19:46, 15 September 2008 (UTC) More input Except, in my eyes, they're not skulls. They are heads/faces made of stone. * Big Stoneface * Mini Stoneface * Stake Stoneface * Drill Stoneface The unnameables are not bodybuilding, and they are not wrestling. It is a matter of debate if they are dancing. They are, doubtlessly, spinning. So I think it should be "Spinning X" where my vote for X is "Twins". Truncated 18:05, 17 September 2008 (UTC) We're getting somewhere... OK, I think we'll never find out what they are. I'll start searching for the game desingners in Facebook though (everyone's in fuckbook) and see if they can help. So far, here's my opinion. Mudesi, as i said above, the skull motive is already used in the game; i don't think we should mix enemies in it; it would get confusing... Besides, Mini and Stake have long arms hanging out; these are the same color but not made of bone, they look like flesh and muscle... Anyway, i think calling it just skull is unapproppriate. (But hey, since you're so sure they are skulls, i bet lots of players think as you do, so we'll have to create "Skull" redirect (or disambiguation) pages. Truncated, i don't know how can you be so sure that they ARE made of stone either. However (and here i'm giving my vote), "stoneface" is a nice finding. Again, even if i don't share the belief that they're stone, many players will have had the same idea. It is a compound name, so it may be not the most spread, but it defines what we want. And we can make it spread. So, I'm OK with Big Stoneface, Mini Stoneface and Drill Stoneface or simply Driller. "Stake stoneface..." Is it a stake? Am i the only one seeing a drill spike in its ass, like the ones in Spike blocks and the Murder wall? Isn't Stake stoneface the same as Shishkaboss, i. e., a stoneface in a shish-kebab stick? But i guess "kebab stoneface" is a terrible name... Oh, and the twins... I like that. Twins. Spinning twins is pretty good. Dancing twins comes real close. On the other hand, we should create a redirect page from "Twins". Do any other twins occur in the game? A. Itsasoguren 20:17, 17 September 2008 (UTC) They ARE skulls Why do you think they called the levels "Under Skull Mountain"? Notice that the ghost one and the wah ha ha one first appear on these levels. And Juggernaut, too, who shoots skulls. And since the big one is just a bigger version of the little one, it's a skull too. Not to mention that they LOOK like skulls! They have no eyeballs. Skulls also fit in with the whole dark, halloween, cave type theme of these levels. I don't think the driller is a skull though. That looks more like a head with drills attached to it, or maybe a drill with a face painted on the front. Since we can't agree on whether they're stone or skulls, maybe we can go with something else. What I see is the "wah ha ha", which is simply a smaller version of the guy that grunts and shouts "DIE!". Both of them do the same thing, which is hop around: * Big hopper * Mini hopper The other one appears out of nowhere and DROPS, but doesn't hop afterwards. And in fact dissapears after a while (which is why I called it "ghost" skull). Since we can't agree on whether it's a skull or a stone, but we DO agree that they're all FACES, how about * Ghost face I also give a vote for "Driller face" and "Twins". The fewer words/syllables, the better. There aren't any other twins in the game, so we don't really have to add "spinning" to describe them. I would be OK with just "Driller", too, but that might cause confusion between an the enemy and the drill block. I also like "Drillface", all one word. Mudesi 19:17, 18 September 2008 (UTC) Faces? But i thought we agreed that they're all four in the same family... So, if "face" is good enough, let's go for Big face, Mini faces, Drillface. I don't see "Ghost face" illogical, don't think i'm not following you. But i do think that they are better defined by their common looks rather than their movement pattern. I mean: all 4 are faces (or skulls, or stonefaces); only 2 are hoppers... So the family name should be Face or Skull or Stoneface. OK with that so far? Should we proceed to choose a Family name among these three? * Face * Skull * Stoneface And then proceed to choose first names? Also: can you believe this? I can't find the Sega team in Facebook! A. Itsasoguren 20:54, 18 September 2008 (UTC) Let's just name them, one at a time I don't think we have to put them in some kind of family. Really, only two of them look related in any way: The wah ha ha and the grunter that says DIE are just big and small versions of the same thing. The other two, though, can just be named for what they are. I think in particular, Drillface is PERFECT. It's a complete description of what the thing is: A drill with a face on it. Why limit the names of the other ones? Since the hoppers are the only two that hop, and since they happen to be big and small versions of the same thing, there's no need to have to force the word "face" or "skull" or anything else in their names. Yeah, they have faces, but so do a lot of other enemies. Why is the Tank not called "Rock tank"? It looks like a rock, after all. It's about being clear and avoiding confusion. The two hoppers are literally the only enemies in the entire game that hop. As soon as you see the name in an article, you'll know exactly what's being talked about. That's all that matters, IMO. Mudesi 02:42, 19 September 2008 (UTC) Okay, enough of this I am assuming dictatorship and deciding that Driller and Spinning Twins are perfectly good names, and creating their articles. About the rest: the reason i think they two enemies hopping around are made of stone is color, texture, and that they crumble into a heap of rubble when they die. Like the Tank (which we seem to agree is made of stone). See Stoneface versus Skull. It is clear to me what they looks the most like. The small and big hopping creatures are definitely related. About Stake, Itsasoguren, wasn't that your idea? It looks like a drill on close inspection, I always imagined it as a peg leg (giving him a pirate persona). Big and Small/Mini whatever. (There's a wonderful word in Swedish that would fit, huvudfoting, which is what kids draw, but there's no equivalent in English. Directly translated it would be something like head-footie. See the Wikipedia article.) My vote is still Stoneface. We can name the appearing dropping enemy something else which we can agree on later. Let's focus on Mr Big and Mr Small now. Truncated 17:43, 19 September 2008 (UTC) Driller and Spinning Twins fine by me For what it's worth, I found a FAQ written by someone else: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/genesis/file/586273/37403 Even he thinks they're skulls. He calls them Falling Skull, Mini Jumping Skull, and Jumping Skull. But it's not like we HAVE to call them skulls or faces or stone in their NAMES. If you want, put the dispute about what they actually ARE in the article about them. For the names, it doesn't really matter, as long as it describes them in some way. Wouldn't it be easier to forget about it all and just go with "Grunter" and "Wa ha ha"? If we absolutely have to go with Big/Mini something, I still like Big hopper and Mini hopper. As for the falling one, who wrote the article for Under Skull Mountain 1? "Emo Skull" sounds good to me! Mudesi 15:48, 20 September 2008 (UTC) Stoneface I am reading some of the comments, and I disagree with Stoneface. KC has a recurring theme in it -- someone on the KC team must have had an obsession with skulls and heavy metal. Specifically skulls, you see them everywhere. Juggernaught has a skull face, there are skulls all over the cave levels, and so I think it should be obvious the heads that first appear in the cave levels are skull heads. They're not colored to look stone-ish (unlike the steps in the cave levels that have skulls on the ends of them), and they animate (unlike a stone which wouldn't be animating at all). In short, I think we're overcomplicating this whole thing. Let's just be simple about it and call them "skull heads" or something that fits the description without additional unnecessary descriptions in the name. A simple name also helps people recognize the enemy by memory better than giving it a name that might confuse someone who isn't active on this wiki. Saxman727 02:08, 22 September 2008 (UTC) OK... Thanks for intervening, Saxman. OK, since two out of four people are so sure about it, let's go for Skull. Ghost Skull doesn't sound bad. Driller is fine too and is created already. About big and mini, I suggest to make their official names big hopping skull and little hopping skull. I know it's long, but it's just the name for the article: redirect pages should be created for both big/mini skull and big/mini hopper. And synonyms can be used all along any walkthroughs, such as Wah-ha-hah's and Emo Skulls. Aye? Also, "Skull" should be a disambiguation page showing all Skull-shaped elements in the game: all four enemies + Juggernaut + nice cute decorations in the cave theme. A. Itsasoguren 16:22, 22 September 2008 (UTC) And now for something completely different Gosh, you're gonna hate me so much for this... Truncated, you named the alien robots as "Robots"... And so did Mudesi and Saxman after you... but, how come Tanks are not robots? I named those robots Bipods. I think "Robot" should be a disambiguation page showing both Tanks and Bipods. Don't you think so? A. Itsasoguren 16:22, 22 September 2008 (UTC) Tanks are not robots I think it's obvious that the tanks are not robots. Let's not confuse things even more now. This is why I think we have to get these enemy names settled, because The Cliffs of Illusion (for example) now has references to both Robots AND Bipods in the same article. Same enemy, different name. In the SAME article! I'm OK with calling them Bipods, but what matters is that whatever the enemy names are, they have to be the same throughout the wiki. Now let's settle this Skull thing. *Ghost skull *Big hopping skull *Mini hopping skull Let's have the above be the official names. In articles, let's call them Big skull and Mini skull, with redirect pages to the above. Sorry, Truncated, I know you think they're made of stone! Let's put the entire dispute in the official articles for them, which I'm going to leave to you guys. Mudesi 17:29, 22 September 2008 (UTC) I strongly disagree with calling the robot bipod The reason i renamed them to robots are that (we discussed this via email also): * just about every other enemy in this game is bipedal, so bipod is extremely undescriptive * there are no other robots (Tanks are not robots, and the tank is at least partly organic. It has eyes and teeth.) Keep that as it is. It looks like the vote is for Skull. Okay then. I think Ghost skull is horrible, though. :/ The image most people have about ghosts (white, fluttering) is nothing like what this enemy looks like. I'd rather have Falling, Dropping, Appearing, Stalking, Chewing, Mechanized, or whatever. Truncated 17:35, 22 September 2008 (UTC) Whoops Hmm... we were both editing at the same time. Okay, Trunc, if you're so sure... I called them Bipods because that was the name of the same machines in Star Wars... Of course i didn't watch that film in English, so i might be wrong. But I thought that was a reference that everyone would agree on. A. Itsasoguren 17:40, 22 September 2008 (UTC) FINAL NAMES - GET YOUR VOTE IN! Ok! Reply to this to get your vote in. OFFICIAL NAMES *Big hopping skull (1) *Mini hopping skull (2) *Falling skull (3) REDIRECT NAMES *Big hopper -> Big hopping skull (4) *Mini hopper -> Mini hopping skull (5) Yes/No on #1 to #5. Majority rules. My vote is yes for all of them. Once this is agreed on, the articles can really start to get fixed up and pretty. All the blocks are done, all the level names are done. The enemy names are literally all that is left. By the way, I also think we should have a Flying dragon link. Either it can be a redirect to Dragon or it can be a totally seperate enemy. But that's not really a big issue because I think (or at least I HOPE) we can all agree that "Flying dragon" is a perfect name for it. Mudesi 20:45, 22 September 2008 (UTC) My vote * #1 YES * #2 YES * #3 NO (sucks. Plus, mini hopping skull also falls from the ceiling. I stick to ghost skull. I read your comment, Truncated, but i don't think ghost stands for 'howling dead guy in a blanket' anymore; this guy appears and vanishes, i think the name ghost fits him.) * #4 YES * #5 YES Anyway, why are we voting for redirects? We should create as many of those as possible, shouldn't we? They don't harm anyone. OK. This list is pretty much official I decided to go with "Emo skull", because to be quite honest, that name sounds the coolest. Also, I don't think enough people know what a "bipod" is, so I'm sticking with Robot. Let's stick with these names for the articles and put any dispute in the articles for the enemies themselves. That way the wiki stays consistent, but we still have a place for explaining that they might be made of stone, or that they're not skulls at all, or that the SEGA developers must have been smoking something when they came up with these guys... Mudesi 20:42, 25 September 2008 (UTC) Enemies listed on game box http://www.mobygames.com/game/genesis/kid-chameleon/cover-art/gameCoverId,80072/ I'm guessing the Crabuloids are Crabs, the Skull Chompers are Emo Rocks, and the Killer Slimes are Drips. -- 04:48, October 22, 2009 (UTC)